Conversation

 

A:  Guess he's touting for business esp to vulnerable newbies since his classes folded.

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"Tango growing more complex" 😂

 

B:  Hahaha so inspirational😆The cult following 😅

 

A:  ‘Cult’ is what ‘X’ calls it!

 

B:  Well, glad we agree on that.

 

I do agree with a couple of things, but given that the purpose of the post is to attract newbs,

the general message (when you read between the lines) doesn’t sit well with me

A: That's the thing, most people don't read between the lines. Or agree because of the burden of previous investment.

B:  Yeah that makes sense 🤔

A:  What do you agree with out of interest? 😁

  

B:  

"The first might not be the one to immediately cross your mind yet it is essential and sets tango apart from many other dances. It’s NAVIGATION. In tango you have to actively move around the room all the time. Couples do not have each their own static “bubble”. It’s more like a highway. I have always believed, from my experience with solo dances, that we underestimate just how hard it is for humans to actively move around a large space while dancing complex movement patterns...you will hardly see any couple really walk in a milonga. "

 

and

"..our attention in dance runs along four channels: music, our own movement, communication with our partner and navigation in space. And on all those four channels things get REALLY COMPLICATED. Focusing on all of them simultaneously is a huge cognitive task. The way our brain functions makes that humans can hold only a very limited amount of elements in their working memory at the same time (also called “short term memory”). The more something is new, the more cognitive resources it will require. The whole purpose of practicing is to lower the cognitive load when dancing. Once a movement is familiar, it no longer uses so much of the working memory and the focus can expand to include something else." 

 

I learned how to play the piano over lockdown and before that I was learning to play the guitar, so I

definitely agree with this. I think it applies to any skill you learn - from skiing to cooking.   The more

you repeat certain actions, the less you think about them. When dancing as a kid, I’d always repeat

steps or sequences until the point I didn’t have to think about them. After that I was able to

improvise and extend those sequences without any effort"

And

"One teacher may tell you things in exact opposition to what another teacher told you."

" tango is not for everybody....few people make it into their second year,"

 

A:  A common misconception with dancing tango - is that it's about muscle memory.  This comes from a

class mentality: study and it will become natural. In some people, yes after 10 or 20 years.  That's how

long it takes to undo the harm of class in guys especially .  Most are tainted for life.                                                                                                                                                                😮

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

It's not about thinking it and then unthinking.  A classic "Xism":  "It sure is hard if you think".

 

If there is a challenge in tango, if there is something that is "hard", it is learning or rather, maybe

remembering how not to think, how to live wholly in the present.

It is a mindswitch more than anything else, like looking at one of those pictures of dots popular in the

80s, “Magic Pictures” and then suddenly switching into another mindset that lets you see the actual

picture within the dots. Have you seen those?

 

B:  Yeah i just looked them up.  I’ve seen some of those before

 

A:  Have you ever managed to see the pictures inside the dots?

 

B:  Isn’t that about pattern recognition though?

 

A:  I don't think so.  Try it next time you are in Edinburgh.  The best ones are in the Illusions museum by

the castleYour eyes or your mind suddenly relax and let you see the pictures.  It's like entering another

mental state

❤️

 

Dancing tango in the way I mean is a bit like that, you "zone in".

 

B:  >>It is a mindswitch more than anything else

Yeah that’s a good point! I like this new perspective bc all I’ve known my whole life was practicing

to get closer to perfection

 

A:  I.e. hard work!!

That's what ballroom is, practice to be perfect. Argentine tango is the exact oppositeThere are no mistakes, there's just what happens.

❤️

And the beauty and the enjoyment is in that

❤️

Perhaps that's partly why they sometimes call it a journey I.e. not a "destination"

 

B:  V similar mindset to  yoga teachings.  Which i was introduced to about a year ago as well.  So this

whole thing is new for me   

 

A:  It doesn't surprise me.  I was going to make that analogy but I haven't done enough yoga.

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For the woman especially. dancing tango is a surrender.  Entregar, they call it.

To the music, to the partner, to the moment.

                                                                                                                                                                                            

B:  Haha that’s one I’ve been struggling with for sure.  I’m a bit of a control freak.  And it feels wrong

to let go.

 

A:  But you are self aware!

 

B:  Yeah, that’s true - I’ve recognised that pattern 😄

 

A:  That's why tango is a good antidote for those of us with control issues

                                                                                                               ❤️ 

B:  You learn so much about yourself

A:  I often wonder if the high number of mathematicians in tango correlates with this.

 

B:  Hmm interesting thought 💭

 

A:  When I'm dancing it's about that letting go (at least with the guys)

            ❤️

And you can't do that if you don't trust them

 

That's why trust, free choice of partner is essential for the woman in this dance

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That's why a guy pressuring you into a dance or teaching you stuff on the floor is never going to correlate

with the kind of dancing I enjoy

 

That's why people don't talk when they dance.  Chat stops that happening.

 

And that's why nearly all dancing you have seen at most of the events we have been to, is not that. 

Except that clip I took of T and E.

 

B:  Yes! I noticed that!

 

A:  So, you can see it when it happens! A lot of people can’t even seem to see it, much less replicate it.

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Then compare it to what you have been seeing, for the most part.

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B:  Very different than what I’ve seen so far!

 

A: https://youtu.be/mkLnrkQ1PTk

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B:  That was a really nice video

 

A:  Yes.  So you get it.

 

B:  Confirms what you just said.

 

A:  And it isn't what you've been seeing here.

That's what I'd like to have here, people coming to us, to dance like that.

❤️

 

Because like attracts like

👍

Of course you can travel. but it would be nice to have that here

❤️

And we already have dancers like that - some of the Edinburgh dancers plus T, E, S, B, Y, M,

who you haven't met yet and a very smooth dancer I mentioned whose name is complicated. 

M dances like that.  She lives far away but comes to the Edinburgh milongas because like attracts like.

👌

B:  It’s sad that beginner dancers get introduced to tango through classes like that

 

A:  Yes, heartbreaking.  Because once damaged, they're lost.  Even if they make it to milonga.  It's a very

hard thing to recover from.  Going to tango class is a bit like being raised a Catholic. 

You can almost never get rid of that legacy. I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but they don't realise

what's happened to them.  It's a bit like dementia that way, you are unconscious of the harm that is

happening to you. But at least you can escape if you become aware. That's what happened to me. 

I never liked class but I thought it was the only way to "learn".  It took me a while to realise you learn by

enjoying yourself in the milonga. I kind of did know this, but not in a conscious way for a while.

    ❤️

 There are experienced dancers  who have been dancing for years and people like dancing with them

but it's not this.  That's why "levels" are not really relevant.  It's a different thing.  You either like that and

tune into it or you do something else.  Most people do something else.

❤️

You learn by being in the real situation, as with so many things in fact

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And it's fun!

            ❤️

But I went to milongas almost immediately from the beginning, only, usually alone and as you can

imagine, that is hard, milongas like Edinburgh

 

B:  Yeah, I probably wouldn’t have gone without you

 

A:  Exactly.  A lot of people come with friends, ones who stay.  I think that's the way in.

👍

But so many people aren't "suited", you know, it doesn't grab them.

Like we were saying with T, people and tango, it's a compatibility thing.  The thing is about compatibility

the whole way through.

👍

The good thing is that it seems to attract a lot of smart people, the good kind of dancing I mean.

👍

Although the funny thing is you often don't do a lot of talking with these smart people!

😅

B:  I love this! I’m going to write it down somewhere I can see it every day

 

A:  Well, I will make a dialogue from it if it's OK with you? 

 

B:  Yeah of course

❤️

 

A:  Who knows, someone else may stumble across it and get curious...

     

Healthy environment, healthy growth and practicas

 

Saughton gardens, Edinburgh (and my mum)

Years ago, I was taught the metaphor of growing, not building a tango scene.  A healthy environment, just like a healthy, tended garden, leads to growth, flourishing, and diversity in harmony.  

Someone remarked to me last week that the Edinburgh milonga scene had no new people coming through.  This was not altogether true - I have seen new people but then I haven't danced there since 2019, and barely then, so 'new' is a matter of perception.   I was pleased that they noted specifically that dancers were not coming through the local tango classes.  This has always been true.  Beginners are the most lucrative market for tango teachers so it pays to keep beginners as beginners in class.  You do not want to lose them to the milonga where they will get ideas of independence, discover the pleasures of social dancing and forsake class. Once someone has been a beginner for a year or three they can graduate to Intermediate and learn more to keep them out of the milonga, thence Advanced etc.

Now, if native teachers were to teach classes about Argentine culture, history, the stories of the tangos, that I might pay for. But I suppose that market is too niche.

New people in the Edinburgh tango scene tend to come through the university and occasionally through people who move here for work.  Young and youngish people from university are incredibly important.  They keep the scene fresh, with an energy.  They are often popular dancers.  They can be open-minded  - there are young women learning both roles just now - an initiative of the Edinburgh Tango Society.  I think the idea is to broaden the offering possibly in the hope that this attracts more people, but I am not quite sure of the logic at this point.  

It is a truism that class seldom leads to social dancing, certainly not good social dancing.  I reckon it takes a guy about ten years, and often closer to twenty to undo the harm of class and start to dance well.  It can also take women a long time, depending on how long it is for them to stop "thinking dance".  I have tried to make this point about classes and social dancing many times over the years.  It is fair to say it is an unpopular theory.  It's unpopular among classgoers, who think that to learn things you need to go to class.  It's very unpopular among people who have spent years in class, because they have invested so much time and money there.  Most of all it is unpopular with those who make their living from or have their sideline in tango classes. 

The university did run tango classes although when I went years ago they were significantly less of a class than most classes.  There was much more "find your own way", which I notice students are quite good at and, key, there was partner choice.  It's only now though, after two years, that the university is starting back again.  

The best way for people to learn to dance socially, is with each other; not beginner on beginner. Even many beginners realise this is a terrible idea. No, beginners with experienced dancers. Seeing which experienced dancers will do this is usefully clarifying in itself.

Teaching is probably suited to choreography for shows or competition.  That requires athletic style training and memorising routines.  

Often learning to dance (without explicit teaching) is fine, in the milonga, only a lot of people can't help but teach.  Learning to dance in the milonga is especially fine when it is women learning with experienced men or women in the guiding role.  Most guys, if they learned the woman's role first, would then find the guiding role much easier. But a practica - a place to practice and dance without interrupting more experienced dancers - is a good and relaxed environment for new people.

There used to be a sort of unofficial hour of practica between 7-8PM at the Edinburgh Counting House milonga, before the milonga proper.  But that early hour seems to be taken over by teaching now. Both times I went to the milonga recently, there was teaching going on.  Because I live far away I like to go early and leave early.  But it is really frustrating when an hour of your dancing is knocked off by teaching or dirge-like "early hour" music.  The first time, the teacher, to my shock, 'recommended' a guy for me to dance with. I already knew him well but we do not dance, with good reason.  It was a flashback to that hilariously awful afternoon at Tango Fabrik El Sur, in Antwerp when the teacher tried to set me up with a wholly inappropriate guy.

The informal practica in the Counting House used to be great.  It is a relaxed and tolerant environment.  From 7PM, some people did come to practice with a partner, quietly, always low key.  Around 8PM when more people started to arrive, this faded unobtrusively into the background, giving way to social dancing proper.  

The idea with a practica is social learning:  less experienced people learn from more experienced people.  This is the traditional way people learnt in Argentina, but it has never been particularly popular here perhaps because of the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant view of "working hard" at things in a certified "hard work environment", like class. So the grip of the class mentality has been too strong.  Surprisingly few people ask others if they will show them how to dance and I wonder why that this.  Whenever I have asked though, I have never been turned down.  

Recently, I was chatting with a more experienced dancer about the practica concept.  He agreed it was important and noted we see it even less now than we did previously.  At this point a teacher was teaching very overtly during the milonga.  The more experienced dancer asked if I would lead him and of course, I agreed.  With tact and subtlety, he offered to show me something that did not come as smoothly to me as I would like.  I was delighted and we moved outside the room. He was helpful, very patient and adapted to the way I needed to learn.  Then the teacher came along and that was the end of that.

Hopes for music in Edinburgh

The grounds of Holyrood Palace

I was looking for a hopeful picture related to Edinburgh and came up with one with a connection to Holyrood Palace, where the Queen's funeral cortege arrived this afternoon.  It is extraordinary how the formal lawn somehow melts into the rocky landscape with Arthur's Seat behind.

I went to the Edinburgh milonga recently, because the new look Edinburgh Tango Society website showed that Richard Trinder was  DJing. As his profile picture suggests, this is not a guy who likes the limelight.  I began dancing in 2012; I expect he has danced quite a lot longer than that.  He is exceptionally quiet in manner, in dance, in everything.  For this latter reason particularly, I had high hopes of his DJing.  Long-term readers may recall that it is often the quietest, most unobtrusive, non-dancing DJs that in my experience have proven to be the best.  They are often professional, like Dany in Buenos Aires. Richard is the best DJ Edinburgh has had, probably since I've danced here. The music became a bit loud - you can tell when you're having to shout in a conversation, but overall it was very good. Certainly, I have not heard a set here that was so good from a relatively new DJ. 

I danced so much and had such a good time, I threw caution to the wind and went to hear DJ Iain (Dickinson), from Glasgow, the following week at the same milonga. When he started DJing, around 2015 I remember noting a good set.  Then his style turned towards drama and I stopped going.  I must have tried again over the next few years and generally found the same because overall I danced less and less locally between about 2015 and 2019 due largely to problems with the local DJing around Edinburgh /  Glasgow / Paisley, which are home to most tango in Scotland.  I tried again in 2019 but there were problems with the volume and I began to seriously fear for the DJ's hearing.    I have noted before that drama and loud volume often go hand in hand.  

Edinburgh's DJ Mike can play a good trad set with at least plenty of dance classics, only it well-known for being very loud.  I have checked in now and again but have no doubt that it is set that way.

I have also dropped in now and then to hear some of the newer DJs but there is nothing doing on that front either just now. 

DJ Ian's set turned out pretty well in terms of great classics for dancing.  I nearly left at the beginning though, as there were three or four tandas of the kind of music that does the tag 'Golden Age' of tango a disservice.  It reminded me of Lomuto:  The good, the bad, and the unbearable.  I don't think it was Lomuto - I left the room as it was too loud and only had enough of an ear out to know when it changed for the better.  I studiously avoid this kind of music so don't hear it often. But it reminded me of some of the music I heard at the Edinburgh International Tango Festival in 2016 or that used to be played routinely at the Counting House in Edinburgh up to and including the era of DJ Anto, who, luckily, eventually and for the most part dropped most of that sort of thing upon, apparently realising that people like dance classics better.  

This kind of music gives the sort of feeling you get from bad, early Lomuto, Rafael Canaro, Francisco Canaro on a bad day, poor quality Orquesta Tipica Victor - in fact I think there was OTV  - and, of course, just about any tango by my old pal, Firpo.   Music from the 1920's is like that too, with the added disadvantage of abysmal sound quality.  I still haven't heard a single good track for dancing from before 1930 and do not now expect to. Luckily, I got chatting outside the room, else I doubt I would have had the patience to stay for three or four of those tandas.  After that, things improved no end.  Again, it was a bit on the loud side but I stayed for the good music and dancing.

I passed on Richard's name to one of the other milonga organisers. He will be DJing again - Friday 7th April 2023 at Milonga del Viernes.  I hope he is back DJing at the Counting House or elsewhere sooner than that or it could be a long time before I am out dancing again.  Still, hope springs eternal.