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| Start of first setlist |
A: Tango Clay's "On Sharing Playlists"
What do you understand by the comment beginning "Indeed"?.
B: It helps educate the upstart DJs
A: Indeed. There’s the problem for some people, sadly.
B:
1. He has an issue with new (maybe young) DJs
2. he thinks they are not respectful … of him (or tango traditions)
Ambiguous final sentence. Indeed suggests he agrees. Unclear what the problem is
A: Ok, thanks.
B: Nor who ‘some people’ are.
A: When he says 'upstart', that has a negative connotation in English. But I think he just means new. And so the sharing of playlists helps educate new DJs. And C says in essence, Well, I agree with you, but not everybody does. Some people think that's a problem. Because, and he doesn't say this, but it's implied, because some people are very protective about their playlists. Or maybe D, did mean upstart, but ironically: that some people see them as upstarts and think that they have to learn on their own, rather than have any help. Or maybe even keep out altogether!
B: So much for community and structure of support. Ripping off a good DJs choice I think is inappropriate. It’s an art form creating your own playlist and effort in finding new music is immense. Shouldn’t be given away for free
A: Do you see any counter argument?
B: Obviously if you want to educate new DJs ….And teach them. If this was painting artwork … what would you say …. Similar construct?
A: I was about to bring up that exact topic! Would you say to them here's a pencil have at it, develop your art form.
B: There’s teaching and then performing/producing, Two different aspects I think. You could practice painting like Picasso. But you should create your own list not be a Picasso derivative …. Or worse steal his ideas and copy his work and present them as your own.
A: A lot of people don't give due credit. My experience is most do not.
B: If you copied the playlist of the best tango dj ….. you are presenting yourself as them. Just fake?
A:Yes
B: Agree
A: But take your own experience, I pointed you to this setblog but you decided to do your own thing and ended up mixing vals and tango in tandas and god knows what else and they didn't ask you back. So, now do you think that dancers would care where you got your ideas from? Or would they care rather that you play a tango tanda which actually has tangos in it and a vals tanda that has just vals in it?
And do you think that the setblog owner would be pleased that you are teaching yourself from his tandas or do you think he would rather you f*** it up?
Why do you think you put his set blog & top tandas out there?
[long pause]
Uncomfortable questions?
B: Question interesting .. not uncomfortable. I choose music that I loved to dance to. That required many many hours of exploration … looking for original tunes to complement very traditional ones that everyone liked to dance to.
I have no interest in the set lists. ….. but I think I know after 10 years what my favourite tunes are. I’ve learned that you can’t please everyone. In fact it’s a rare thing for everyone to agree on a brilliant set. So …. I play music I like (and really hope everyone will enjoy) it’s an act of creativity that took hours to produce. If you don’t like it, another dj will be along shortly. It’s a selfish act djing. Just like art. So if there was the perfect set … should everyone use it? Should one person decide what’s played?
A: But I asked "Why do you think you put his set blog & top tandas out there?"
B: I didn’t
A: I know you didn't. But why do you think he does?
B: 1. Ego … a this is what music you should be playing statement .. look at how good I am.
2. Could be brand development .. if he’s being paid to play … puts his name out there as ‘an expert’
3. Could be he’s altruistic and just wants to share his knowledge and has no ego attached
Really you need to ask him for the answer
A: It's 3. Good answers though!
So how do DJ's learn?
B: Go to DJ school
A: Seriously?
B: It’s a false construct. Colonial influences have corrupted it all. I've a book I can give you .. will change how you think of tango. Can never be authentic. It’s an illusion of a tradition that never existed. It feeds off itself.
A: What?!! You're just winding me up!!
So do you think the only way people can learn drawing or dancing or DJing is to go to school? Or class?
B: No. Was being silly about dj school. Was being serious about roots of tango. It’s been capitalised beyond belief. Not danced for years after military shut it down
A: Capitalised, you mean monetised?
B: Yes through transcribing and tailoring it to specific cultures. Such as ballroom finish French and Japanese derivatives … it’s origins are contested. Chile claims it too
A: I don't think Finland disputes their form came from Argentine tango. It just evolved to be a completely different form.
B: [Sends Youtube film with early tango dancing]
Films define it. Early tango …. Like to see you dance this as it’s close to original hahah
A: All our conversations grow branches! Chilean, Finnish, Japanese tango all came from the root of Argentinian tango and took on their own forms.
B: No close embrace … french style that we do. But the root is illusion … I will give you book …. explains it in depth
A: But to draw these threads together is your argument that there is no "right" music to play because there is no tradition. Therefore, you can only, as a DJ, go by your creative instinct?
B: You have to be clear about what you want. [organiser redacted] wants pre 1940s music ...so any dj going there needs to want to play that music or not go there. Alt tango is at the other extreme.
A: Why do you always slide out of every question?! But to go back , you don't think DJs have to learn anything. You see it as purely personal, creative?
B: Your questions have no specific answers. If you know nothing then it would be an incoherent playlist. If you know all there is to know then it will be an amazing playlist. To get from A to B you need to learn progressively. Not many here that could teach you how to be B.
A: But by your lights there is no destination, just lots of alternative destinations depending on what hosts want and cultures have adapted to.
You haven't mentioned the dancers yet.
B: [redacted] said my tango set was the best they've ever heard. Have they commented on yours? Hahah
A: I don't play for people like that. There are lots of people who are nice with whom I like to chat but we are not compatible in music and dance. This isn't a unique thing. Lots of people are like that. That's why you end up with the different milongas you mentioned.
That's why I don't play in [redacted], and why I don't even really want to play in [redacted]. They're not places I'm committed to, as a dancer - nowhere is, actually. I go now and again. Apart from that, it is a lot of work. I have to travel far, spend £20 on travel and it's fairly thankless. I get to dance less. I don't even get expenses, l in fact at the last place they made it clear that the helping team all pay the entrada.
They also introduced me as a newbie DJ, when in fact I was DJing before nearly all of them started or arrived on the scene.
And so few people care about the music. You can see it in the dancing. So what's the…
B: Mine was a light hearted quip I don’t take tango as seriously as you do.
A: What I don't understand is whether you think the whole thing is purely creative and you learn as you go, assuming of course you get a second chance, or whether there is anyone you would learn from, or would that be just any visiting DJ who runs a DJ workshop, or would that be someone you have heard and whose music you like?
B: All of the above. I’ve been to a tango musicality workshop. Would go again if there were some running. I appreciate really good music. [redacted] plays lovely music
A: And yet, in 12 years, how many DJ workshops have you attended. Have you ever asked [redacted] how to DJ? Or were you put off by the likely [redacted] private lesson price tag?
B: I appreciate [their] choices of music
A: And is that enough to learn?
I noticed that you had some good traditional tandas. And I don't know how you did that, whether you referred to the set blog or... I would be interested to know how you did put those together.
B: I listened to trad songs and chose the best ones from each composer. I did not use or refer to anyone else.
[redacted] gave me the 400 tunes as a start and offered me a dj slot.
A: Do you still have that [other] spot?
B: It’s there for me … but I’m reluctant to play there again
A: Oh? How come?
B: It stresses me when I’m not sure that people like my music. Want to play for like-minded audience …… just like you
A: Start your own, alternative gig. I think you'd be overrun.
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